(James Fogarty is a man of many talents and musical incarnations, but clearly one of his favorites is in the guise of Kobold within the British black metal band Old Forest. That band, and their newest album Graveside (out now on Soulseller Records) is the focus of Comrade Aleks‘ interview with him that we present today, though the discussion turns to come of his many other projects and bands as well.)
Bands practicing any of the old school genres nowadays do not have to be original, they are not required to be. We approach such bands with a very specific request and expect to receive impressions conditioned by a clear code, a set of musical, lyrical and visual attributes common to the genre.
British black metal band Old Forest does not hide its intentions to express itself with the traditional features of the “second wave of black”. The name and logo itself, and the cover of the new album based on the 18th century painting ‘Moonlit Stoke Poges Cemetery’, exude a unique old-fashioned charm. Song titles such as “The Curse of the Vampire”, “Forgotten Graves”, “Spawn of the Witch” and so on categorically indicate the subject of their lyrics.
Although the label describes Old Forest’s approach to recording as “primitive and regressive”, this does not mean that Graveside will irritate your eardrums with its sound like the scraping of dead man’s claws on your window pane. Old Forest‘s eighth album is an honest and artful piece taken to the extreme level of verisimilitude. Their moderately angry, sincere, coffin-grim black metal comes straight from the ’90s, which is not surprising if you remember that the band has been active since 1998. With a deliberately simplified approach to writing music and a general tendency towards traditionally repetitive themes that build up the atmosphere, Old Forest catches you with memorable, sharp solos, rhythm changes, and even vocal melodies or the utterly vampiric harpsichord’s tunes.
Here’s the interview Kobold conducted with us soon after the Graveside release on Soulseller Records.
Hi Kobold! How are you? What’s going on in Old Forest?
Hi – keeping busy as always. I guess we’re now having a break from Old Forest, now that the album is out.
You started 2024 with the release of the EP Covered in Black pt 3 containing cover versions of Bathory, Behemoth, Immortal, and Slayer, and in December was released Old Forest’s new album Graveside. And there was the EP Old Thrones (A Darkthrone Tribute) in 2023. Do such tribute releases help to spread the word about your band? Is it something you’re going to keep on doing further?
We love that ’90s period so very much – a totally different time. The recordings of that period offer so much more, in terms of atmosphere, sincerity, originality. It was all over, once the big labels started cashing in, and led the originators astray from the path on which they started. The cover recordings we have done are a way to stay connected with that spirit, which is sadly now almost entirely absent from most new Black Metal bands (at least to my ears). As we decided early on that we would never play live, our growth has been limited to underground fans, and so there are many many fans of Black Metal that have never heard of us, so it’s a good way to spread the name of Old Forest.
A band’s popularity offers them a better way to communicate with listeners and spread their ideas. So, if a band is neck-deep in their ideology (praising satan or the north), then major labels only help them to spread the word. Is it often that bad when some old bands join some big labels? Sometimes bands lose their original spirit anyway only because of growing older, isn’t that true?
The issue is that when an artist is given the opportunity of a wider audience, they will almost always adapt their sound to cater to it. Likewise, a major label is never going to waste time releasing a ‘product’ that is incredibly underground. So, the earliest material of a band is usually the best, because it is created for the sake of being creative and not to sell records or to gratify inflated egos. Age is surely a thing too; there are not many teenagers with financial agendas other than getting wasted.
For me, commercial concerns are always detrimental to art of any kind. For us, Old Forest is a relative minnow compared to most bands, but we are known enough for smaller labels to justify releasing our music. On a side-note, one thing I personally detest with social media is that it leads to many bands buying fake likes and streaming numbers – I don’t think Black Metal bands have any business engaging in such behavior; this music wasn’t meant to be on MTV or Top of the Pops (I am now showing my age…)
You keep on supporting the flame of the “Golden Age of Black Metal” through the Graveside songs, and hold to the old codex, so to speak, of this genre. How do you see your development from the previous album Sutwyke (2023) to the new one? Isn’t the genre narrow for you yet?
The writing of Mournfall, Sutwyke and Graveside all overlapped at points, and so there was a specific separation of the styles for us. 2021’s Mournfall (recorded ’19-’21) was a deliberate attempt to mix the Death / Doom of early Paradise Lost and the early 90’s Black Metal sound. As a result, it’s pretty different, and much slower / heavier than what you would expect of Black Metal. 2023’s Sutwyke (recorded ’20-’22) was an album with songs that we spent a long time composing, and editing. We could have taken it more into a symphonic style, but decided not to – in hindsight, we should have done.
2024’s Graveside differed, in that we deliberately retained a spontaneity in terms of writing, recording, lyrics… totally disregarding the notion of ‘originality’ or worrying too much about perfection in recording or production. This is very much how we first started when we worked on the demos in 1998. We also went back to using our old ’90s keyboards (mostly of the cheap variety), and recording in E standard (which lends itself to faster tempos).
It is entirely possible that this is not immediately obvious to the casual listener, but it is what sets these records stylistically apart for us. As far as Black Metal being narrow, this can definitely be the case – that is why the artist must find different angles by which to approach each album and retain enthusiasm. There are still avenues which we will explore musically in future albums.
How do you fuel your own Black Metal fire? You play almost all sorts of metal, so do you need that special state to channel this exclusive kind of inspiration?
When I am personally working on a project in a nuanced style, I will engross myself in listening to that music, reading up old interviews with bands, looking through old album art and photos. It’s really important to be in the right mental state for being creative. Black Metal was a very big part of my life as a teenager in the ’90s, so I have to capture that feeling again before I start writing / recording. Even using the wrong keyboard sounds can destroy a Black Metal track (I have a small collection of mostly cheap mid-’90s which I used for Graveside…)
Telling that, I need to admit that there were a few small surprises in the album like the psychedelic guitar theme in “Soil of the Martyrs”. Do you feel any pressure to add some different things to each new album? Is it necessary or do you feel quite comfortable in a sort of cultural cocoon?
I think whatever feels right is sometimes the best thing to add. As long as it is not detracting too far from the stated aim of a Black Metal album. We do what feels natural for us – there aren’t any rules per se. The whole writing process was accompanied by listening almost only to the early ’90s records that we all know and love. But some individuality and personality will always seep through in places, even if that is not the intention…
Since our previous interview you got involved in two more projects – the gothic doom band Qadmon in 2023 and the international formation Venger. How do you manage to separate your artistic ideas into different flows / bands? Do you ever mix your ideas between projects when you feel, for example, this riff from a heavy metal band would fit your black metal stuff better?
Qadmon’s music is written by Kjetil Ottersen, who has mastered many of my personal recordings over the last 5 or 6 years. I helped out with arrangements and vocals (all clean). The style is very much the middle periods of both Katatonia and Anathema – pretty far indeed from Black Metal. We have an album’s worth of Qadmon material, but are in no hurry to release it.
Venger is also a completely different beast; this is a project I work on with Doug Scarrett from Saxon, who is an extremely gifted guitarist and composer and obviously very successful. This project is for fans of Iron Maiden, Saxon, Judas Priest…
After I quit In the Woods in 2021, I had less stress and more time to explore other aspects of Metal; one of these projects was Venger, and the other was Nattehimmel (formed with the Botteri brothers; the founding members of In the Woods, and rightful owners to their legacy). Regarding Venger, I have a mutual friend with Doug, who also lives very locally, and when we eventually met by chance, we discussed the idea of combining forces. We are joined by my Norwegian friend Sven (also the drummer for Nattehimmel) and Franz (also the vocalist for Austria’s Roadwolf). We’re actually finishing the debut album now, and it should be released later in 2025!
You don’t perform live with Old Forest. Will you make an exception for any of these projects?
Although it can be a satisfying experience to perform, it is not something that I personally feel the need to do as I thrive on the creative process, not on satisfying my ego. I haven’t been on stage since with In the Woods in 2019, and I don’t particularly miss it (unless I’ve had a few beers). Black Metal was a rare live experience in the mid ’90s, and I largely enjoyed the solitary discovery of this mysterious music, through its questionable album covers, shakey production, and raw energy captured on tape & vinyl. Black Metal is not for large live audiences.
Also, I actually hate the live music experience as an audience member. I don’t think it would do any favours to see middle-aged guys dressed like gothic rejects jumping around playing obscure Black Metal – this would ruin what small amount of mystique Old Forest actually have… It’s not impossible that a different band or project may perform live, but it would have to be an opportunity too great to turn down.
Also, as you play in a few different bands, how do you change the settings of your equipment and instruments from one to another? Do you keep the same “sound” for some of your projects? How much of real James Fogarty is in Old Forest’s songs? Do you separate Mr. Fog’s and James’ personalities?
There is, psychologically, a separation of ‘characters’ in my mind, and it is entirely possible that I will need therapy at some point… But certainly, there is a distinguishing separation in my own mind. ‘Kobold’ is Old Forest, ‘Mr Fog’ is Ewigkeit, ‘Jaldaboath’ is Jaldaboath, James Fogarty is ‘Venger’…. I will come up with lyrical or musical ideas, and know immediately what it would be for. It’s all a question of time and what I want to do right now.
If I was more organized and didn’t have to work for a living, it’s highly likely that Jaldaboath and Ewigkeit would be more active projects. However, I am concentrating more these days on collaborations (Old Forest, Venger, Nattehimmel, Qadmon…) as I don’t have to do everything. The sound is… hmm. I think it differs more due to the style, rather than production. If there is a budget, someone better will produce a release. If there is not, then my own production has to do.
Two years ago, you said that you “will be releasing a compilation of dark ambient tracks from the last 25+ years at some point”. How does this project go? Did you put it aside? You also mentioned that there’s “a growing pile of catchy heavy metal songs” — did you find out how to release that?
The compilation of Dark Ambient synth (which these days is called ‘Dungeon Synth’) was eventually put together and released on Bandcamp. A few of the earlier tracks were recorded for Ewigkeit, before Old Forest existed. But the Dungeon Synth thing is far more Black Metal, and Ewigkeit left that sound over 25 years ago – and so it adds more sense to release under the guise of ‘Kobold’ (Old Forest). The compilation was released as Kobold’s Grimoire; chapter 1. It’s only on Bandcamp – but if a eventually a label specializing in that style wanted to give it a physical release, that’d be welcome.
Regarding the ‘catchy heavy metal songs’, most of these have been absorbed into Venger – so you’ll hear those later in 2025 (it really is exceptional!). I do still have some more Irish folk-styled metal tracks without a home, but am not entirely sure where to put those right now…
Maybe it’s time to lend a helping hand to Skyclad? They seem to be stuck in their crisis. However, I know that it’s a simplistic attitude, but why did you decide to organize it as a separate project, but not to scatter these tunes as “intros” and “outros” in other bands?
I am always interested to participate in interesting projects, but was never a huge fan of Skyclad and don’t know what their woes are? (The truth be told, I wasn’t a huge fan of In the Woods either, other than the debut album.) I think that there is too wide a variation in what I create, and what I want to create, to put it all in one place. Someone, someday, may collate a play-list of all my material (at least, that which is on streaming), but I don’t think it would all fit together – even albums from the same band can vary wildly, and would ultimately disappoint people who have liked certain albums that I have done with certain bands or projects over the years. There are a few people who I am in contact with, and who like a few different ones, but I have never met someone who liked it all; even I don’t.
We discussed the idea of escapism through the art, so does it still work? There’s a damn lot of things happening around and it’s hard to ignore the growing pressure of social, economic, and ecological processes. End times are upon us! Or aren’t they? By the way, how do you escape the apocalyptic edge in Old Forest? A theme that’s quite popular in the black metal genre.
The shittier the world gets, the more effort I tend to invest in the escape though music and artwork. I’m not entirely sure what is going on in society anymore; it feels as though it is being deliberately fractured and torn apart as a means to control us. Whether that is via global health scares (covered on the 2021 Ewigkeit EP Depopulate) or by the U.S. provoking proxy wars everywhere (because their weapons won’t buy themselves…) or by the cancelling of all pre-internet culture – it’s becoming ridiculous and painfully obvious to everyone.
However, all these concerns are essentially political in nature, and that’s as far from Old Forest as you can get; Old Forest is escapist and darkly fantastical – inspired by the imaginary and mythical. I hate to see Black Metal that involves real-world concerns, and I especially dislike politics – it’s not the place for it, in my opinion. It would be best for those people to go form an old school Death / Grindcore band for those things…
https://soulsellerrecords.bandcamp.com/album/graveside
https://soulsellerrecords.bandcamp.com/album/sutwyke