AN NCS INTERVIEW: GÖDEN

(Delayed by both external events and our editor’s foot-dragging, we finally present our Comrade Aleks‘ interview of Stephen Flam, an original member of the seminal NYC band Winter and a founder of Göden, whose second album Vale of the Fallen (the main subject of the interview) was released by Svart Records last May.)

About thirty-five years ago, the heavy, rusty, clanking Winter thundered through the New York City underground. Over time, the young trio, making sloppy death-doom, entered the pantheon of genre pioneers whose names are known mostly to doom-heads, but then the band simply fell apart after their first album Into Darkness (1990).

Winter’s guitarist Stephen Flam returned with two confederates as Göden in 2020: Betty (“Vas”) Lakkas aka Nxyta (Goddess of Night) on vocals and Tony Pinnisi aka The Prophet of Goden on keyboards. With the new album Vale of the Fallen, Göden continued this year the direction they took on their debut, Beyond Darkness (2020): unusual, but uncomfortable and categorically gloomy post-apocalyptic doom with hoarse female vocals.

Stephen keeps on experimenting with monotonous doom forms from an industrial angle and extra ambient arrangements. He created these tracks during the most serious Covid isolation period, and one can naturally feel the doom, emptiness, and general existential crisis in Vale of the Fallen. Göden are stingy with melodies, the sparse landscape of the album is occasionally diversified by a violin or an unexpected acoustic pastoral. Vas does not sing, but rather recites the text. Her voice is emotionally heavy, empty, sometimes hoarse, but not extreme – like the entire album. When Svart Records writes that Göden is the spiritual successor to Winter, I tend to agree, but in simple terms, Vale of the Fallen is deathly doom metal with a cold sound, industrial undertones, and occasional ambient passages.

We started the interview with Stephen the same way I usually do, by email, but I waited and waited, and there wasn’t a reply for the set of extra questions, and I believe that you already know the answer: Tony Pinnisi, Winter’s and Göden’s keyboard player, left this world on August 23rd at the age of 72. Tony added his touch to Winter’s Into Darkness, and he was an integral part of Göden. Well, the mood of this interview, done in around July, is a bit “obsolete” now, but this conversation with Stephen will serve as a commemoration of Göden and thus – as a commemoration of Tony.

 

Hi Stephen! How are you? What’s going on in Göden’s camp? The band’s new album Vale of the Fallen is finally released, so accept my congratulations. How do you feel regarding this release? Are you focused on its promotion, or you rather don’t care much about it?

Thank you. We are excited it is finally out. It was a lot of work to make that album and I feel it is a heavy follow up to Beyond Darkness.

 

By the way, do people still tend to see Göden as “ex-Winter member’s band”? Does it help with promotion?

Winter is part of our DNA and will always be part of Tony‘s and my past. I think Into Darkness is a great album. The new Live in Brooklyn NY released April 2024 on Svart is what Winter sounds like…. Göden is kind of a continuation of where Winter might have gone from my perspective.

 

Svart calls Göden “spiritual successors of Winter”. There are obvious differences between the bands, so what are the similarities from your point of view? How much of Winter is in Göden?

Göden is different enough to have its own identity but has that same slow, doomy vibe. As far as song structures and approach it is very similar. Winter is more of a large mass of sound and Göden is a more distilled and focus sound with many more layers. Kind of like Celtic Frost is to Triptykon what Winter is to Göden. Göden is in many ways the spiritual successor because we moved forward and continued without the other Winter members because they no longer create music and are somewhat retired from playing.

 

The album’s artwork is extremely bleak, as well as the cover of the first record Beyond Darkness. Did you search for more expressive images to complement your music?

Eva Petric created the artwork on Beyond Darkness, so when Vale of the Fallen was completed Eva and I started to work on the new album. I wanted it to feel like a series, a story that continues.

 

 

Did the Covid quarantine influence Vale of the Fallen really so hard? Which themes did this period make you channel through this album?

Covid made things very complicated since NYC was in tough times. We could not get together to rehearse or record in the same room. We tracked everything completely separate. In some ways it was helpful because it forced us to think differently and that sometimes help with creativity. When creating and recording like that gives time to think about different options and layers whereas when you are in the room together you usually have to create on the spot. Both work but different.

 

The album’s key vibe is uncomfortable, oppressing, and grim, just like it should be when you listen to death-doom things. But what’s the purpose of this tender pastoral track “The Divine”? Did it play a special role in the album’s concept? Like a contrast?

“The Divine” is an unusual track. It was recorded at St John The Divine church in NYC in the garden by accident. Eva had a piano delivered to the church for a video she was helping us make and Tony just started to play. I thought it was a beautiful piece of music so I grabbed my iphone and hit record… When I asked Tony if he could replay it, he said “I do not know what I played, it just came out that way”. “The Divine” is a magical moment captured. Margaret our violinist heard the track and loved it so she played over it and it seemed like the perfect opening track to have some contrast.

 

There are eight tracks entitled as “Manifestations” in the Beyond Darkness album, and now you have “Manifestation IX”. Does it bind the two albums together? What’s the concept behind this series of tracks?

I intended “Manifestation IX” on Vale of the Fallen as both a sequel to, or continuation of, the first eight pieces on Beyond Darkness, and as a “prologue” to the remaining pieces, “X” through “XIII”…

 

You’re based in New York, and it was mentioned how bad the situation was there during the pandemic. What are the good and bad sides of living there in “normal” times? Though I doubt that we can call these times normal ones

New York is our home and part of our DNA. I have had many great times and experiences. The pandemic was a major low point for everyone, death, isolation, loss of income that dragged on and still in some ways changed the way things used to be.

 

 

Do you see or do you want to see Göden as a part of the metal underground? Is it normal for you to work in isolation or is it more comfortable to belong to the scene?

Göden is not part of any scene. We move and create regardless of what others are doing. I think Göden is part of the world scene at this point. The record is released worldwide so our fans are global. The making of the albums will always be in isolation because that’s how we like to create.

 

Winter was one of the very first death-doom bands in the United States. You, Dream Death, probably Goatlord, did these things from the very beginning. Why do you think this music didn’t become a trend in the US like it was with the UK Three? Should we blame grunge? Though I think that sludge is a more natural doomy genre in the US, it’s probably about cultural background.

Winter completed Into Darkness in 1989. Winter never considered themselves death-doom.. If anything our background was diverse. We like many types of music and artists. We were accepted more in the NYC punk scene. NYC had a thriving hardcore and metal scene back then. Winter was not really accepted because we were really slow and most metal/punk bands were fast and hard. Years later the tide changed and Winter became more interesting; by then I had moved on to play with Roy Mayorga and John Jesse of Nausea to form Thorn, which was released on Roadrunner records.

 

What are your plans for Göden for the rest of 2024?

For now we are waiting to see what the response is to Vale of the Fallen. Hopefully it continues to build up a following. We would like to play some festivals and support the record.

 

https://goden.net/

https://www.facebook.com/GODEN.official/

https://goden-official.bandcamp.com/album/vale-of-the-fallen