(In the following interview, Comrade Aleks presents a very interesting discussion with Mexican writer José Luis Cano Barrón, the founder of Under Fire Records and the author of numerous books about metal. The main focus of this conversation (but not the only one) is his book about Bathory and Quorthon, an English translation of which has been released this year by Pagan Records.)
Bathory is one of the most influential extreme metal bands of the past, as Quorthon, its constitutor, was one of the first to lay the foundation for the black metal genre, and he was the one and only who formed the rules of viking metal. Almost each album he recorded differs from another, but even the most controversial of his releases, like those two he did in the mid-’90s, got recognition.
Quorthon passed away twenty years ago on February 17, 2004, and it felt terribly wrong that there weren’t books about his career and Bathory’s history. Yet, it’s easy to understand why, because he always avoided revealing details of his personal life and preferred to work alone, so there weren’t many evidences that could help to recreate some episodes of his life accurately.
Long story short: Pagan Records released an English-language edition of José Luis Cano Barrón’s book From Hades to Valhalla… BATHORY – The Epic Story. And I couldn’t ignore it, so here we have José, who not only shared his look at Bathory’s story, but also revealed some of his plans, which may excite other bookworms like me.
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Hi José! How are you doing? What’s new on your side?
Hello there! Thanks for the interview! Very kind of you! I just published a new book about the Brazilian band Sarcófago, which has been very well welcomed! And as usual I am working on new books (some not music related), and also run my label Under Fire Records and just retook an old project of releasing official shirts of old bands, whose designs are no longer available for many years or did not exist at all. And working on the translation into English language of the Sarcófago book. Wait for it, as initially it was released in Spanish only!
A Sarcófago book! Really? Is it composed the same way as From Hades to Valhalla…?
It is a biography of the band if you mean that, and in that way is similar to Bathory’s. Of course, each band’s story and context are different, so, there are elements of Sarcófago’s book not even considered to be included in the Bathory text or other books, and vice-versa. Each book I have released has it own characteristics.
Pagan Records released the English version of your book From Hades to Valhalla… BATHORY – The Epic Story, so accept my congratulations. The book turned out to be not as big as I expected, but it’s very accurately written and I bet that it will please any Bathory fan. How long did you gather all these materials?
Thanks for your kind words!! What you mean with “big”?? The typo is very small so we saved pages and costs, ahaha!
Well, it was a process of years. I mean, I started to collect Bathory records since 1985, and as the band became one of my top acts to follow, started to get mags and fanzines and even photos related to Bathory and Quorthon. I think that was the beginning of the process. Of course, to gather and organize all took some years.
As I mention in the book, I first published an issue of my fanzine Gods of Iron, devoted to Bathory. That was by the year 2002. Of course, in that moment, I never thought that issue would be the basis of a book. So, I can say in all sincerity it took many years to gather, process, and publish the book… some 10 years of effective work, including many wasted hours with people who only were an obstacle instead a helping hand.
I don’t know… why, for example, didn’t you pay more attention to a detailed overview of Quorthon’s lyrics? Do you feel this element is not one of big significance due to his superficial views on satanism and Odinism? Or, you know, things like quoting Iron Maiden’s “Revelations” in his first albums…
I don’t think Quorthon had a superficial view on the topics he used for his texts (satanism, occultism, Odinism, paganism, modern life, etc). He was a well-read person who had an ample culture for his age, and had interests in many topics, which he used for his lyrics. As time went by, he changed his lyrics, much as his mind and points of view also changed. And these changes came from his mind’s maturity, as anyone’s, at least in theory. I can’t remember any quote of “Revelations” used on the early Bathory albums. He didn’t like Maiden much anyway.
I didn’t want to go much into the lyrics because everyone needs to have her/his own opinion on the Bathory lyrics, as well as for the music. I just mentioned what I considered necessary, avoiding any kind of “analysis”, or even opinions. I think the subjects he used for his lyrics were ok for each album and its context.
Oh, both “Born for Burning” (The Return……) and “13 Candles” (Under the Sign of the Black Mark) have one line from Iron Maiden’s “Revelations”. But anyway… You chose Bathory and Quorthon as the theme of your new book, being a huge fan of this project. Its influences are immense without any doubt, and Quorthon was one of the true pioneers of extreme aggressive metal. How do you think why metalheads and media accepted this music back in the late ’90s? It was raw, totally unpolished, it was dangerous due to the satanic image of Bathory. How did it work?
Actually, it is not a new book, it was published back in 2016 in Mexico by myself. I think Bathory had a big impact since the very first second that people noticed the band, in 1984. I am not sure if Bathory’s music can be considered as “accepted” or if it should be. It was not necessary to be accepted in my opinion.
It was understood and liked by us, young metalheads who were into extremity, noise, and new proposals in Metal music, and we did not care what the (“big”) media said about Bathory or all those extreme bands like Slayer or Bulldozer. Mags like Creem, Hit Parader or Kerrang! gave them all bad reviews and even mocked them. We didn’t care (we did not need “influencers” like nowadays happens to teach people what to think or like) and went straight to get the records, and enjoy them and understand what (in this case) Bathory meant to us!
Quorthon had the “touch” to make music appealing people, and that became immortal, no matter if you are speaking of the Black Metal albums or the Viking ones or even the thrashier period. He was a very charismatic guy, but above that, a very talented individual whose musical art transcended time and space, and so will be forever.
With the Norwegian Black Metal tide, which reached many other countries, that significance got increased and finally Bathory got the status of “cult”. Quorthon himself was very much uncomfortable with the fact of people calling him and his project as “cult” and/or “legend” and all those glitzy, ridiculous tags. But, as those Scandinavians started to mention Bathory as a major influence, newcomers started to dig into the past and liked the music of the band, in a certain level. So, the influence of Bathory on Metalheads got bigger, to the point it is considered as a reference for Extreme Metal.
Speaking about Bathory’s metamorphosis, what kind of specific crucial points in Quorthon’s career would you choose to determine? I wonder if the question has an answer, because, you know, it’s like with Hammerheart: he recorded the album which led to the creation of Viking metal, and the very next album was already another thing. So was it an important album? Sure! Did it change anything for Quorthon? I doubt it did.
One of the best things in Bathory, in my opinion at least, is that Quorthon never recorded an album twice, unlike what happens nowadays. He always changed from album to album and if one record sounded not that innovative or without its own personality, he would stop working on it and come up with something different. That was the case of the stuff between the debut LP and The Return…… Quorthon always looked for new horizons, or at least not repeating himself again and again. Even the three satanic albums sound very different from each other, as well as the Viking/Epic albums do. The same with the thrashing phase. The pivotal album for Bathory was the debut, but the band had many, dare I say at least 8, albums that are crucial for the band and the bands influenced by Bathory in one way or another.
Each rock or metal biography has its share of stories from tours, gigs, and other alcohol-related events. In the case of Bathory we have nothing of this, because Quorthon kept his personal life in privacy, there weren’t many reliable witnesses of his deeds, and he didn’t play live. Was it a challenge to write a book like this? Without such necessary “hot” content?
I was very glad when I realized that I didn’t have to deal with such superfluous topics. Of course, there are some little stories, superficially mentioned in the book, regarding those matters, like those crazy activities in the USA. And I was glad because that permitted me to focus on the main theme of the book, the core: Bathory itself and the music, not how many girls Quorthon spent the night with.
If you check closer, the book is not about Quorthon, it is mainly on Bathory and its music, and touches some related branches like the influence and importance of Bathory in Extreme music, etc. You may say that you can’t write about Bathory without mentioning Quorthon, and that’s right, but I avoided going deeper into his private life, even when I have some good info on his personal life like his relationship with his mother and other stuff, but disregarded it in favor of concentrating on Bathory. I tried to respect his will of keeping his private life away from his artistic activities. Anyway, much of his personal life was not relevant for the purposes of the book.
Did you get any irrefutable evidence from aside about the family relationship between Quorthon and Boss who did an immense amount of work producing and promoting Bathory?
Oh well, yes. Some people in the Swedish scene back in the day, knew the (evident) ties of Quorthon and Boss, and as I had many friends there due to tape-trading, they shared some “secrets”. I even knew the name of Quorthon, which was not a total secret either. And, after all those years, that info proved to be real and true, or at least most of it. At the beginning I thought I would keep the relationship between them secret, but as Boss started to mention it, then I found no reason to not include that fact in the book. I had very deep conflicts with myself about that matter: the pertinence of including it or not.
Did you get why they both tried to keep this distance in the face of other people? Was it only because Quorthon wanted to prove that his success was the result of his own efforts, not a matter of someone’s money put into the promotion, recording, etc?
Well, I think they both didn’t want to mix the music and their private life. Also, this added a touch of mystery and uncertainty to all related to Bathory. I think all the time it was clear that Bathory‘s success came from the music itself, not due to promotion, which actually was not that big, and remember, they never toured. Good music was the reason for all the success.
Does the English edition of the book differ from the original one? Did you make any changes or update some parts?
Only small addings and fixes, but substantially it is the same text. The layout and design are different in every edition out there.
You said that a lot of people connected to the band ignored your requests. I know this situation, because I faced the same when I wrote Doom Metal Lexicanum. How much time did you waste sending the requests?
It is a so frustrating situation that you know very well. I can say I started to contact people by the year 2010 or before, and most of them ignored me. Some of them changed their minds and helped, others simply had no time or something useful to say, so they politely excused and send some good wishes. This situation delayed everything about 3 years, more or less.
And Jennie Tebler? Did she choose to keep this conspiracy attitude towards her brother’s career?
Of course, as well as his younger brother.
It seems that you dug out almost every publication related to the Bathory name, but what about Quorthon’s correspondence with other bands? I doubt if he had a lot of pen pals around the world, but I believe that it was in Moonspell’s biography that the guys wrote him a letter and met him in Portugal during his promotional trip. If I remember correctly.
Well, Quorthon was very much isolated and did not care about scenes or other bands. I know he had some communication with Sodom in the early days (not for nothing, Witchhunter went to Stockholm to rehearse with him, not to mention that on the latest Sodom studio album, there is a song dedicated to both!). As I said before, he was focused on Bathory instead of making contacts and having friendship with bands. One must remember that he never toured or played live, so, the chances to get in touch or have a friendship relation with other bands was basically zero. One exception to that rule, was the group Mephisto (Sweden); he had some good relations, and even supported them.
How did you manage to separate Quorthon’s pranks from true statements? You did a few very precise conclusions on some of his statements, but overall, sometimes he behaved just like a trickster!
Ahahah, good question. You have to read between lines and use immense loads of common sense to discover things, at least in the case of Quorthon. You have to contrast dates, facts and all, and then arrive at a conclusion, or two… It was not easy because Quorthon used to troll most journalists, but I noticed that he tended to give more sincere and precise answers to fanzines or less important media than those people on Kerrang! or Metal Hammer, so I paid especial attention to those small fanzines. I think I got a very detailed text, trying to be the more realistic and objective as possible, and of course all that info was underpinned with interviews and chats with some people related, in one way or another, with Bathory.
You performed a real investigation observing all the editions of Bathory’s albums and structuring them. What drove you to do this work? And how did you manage to discover all these details?
Well, I thought that, as the book deals with the music of Quorthon and Bathory, a special study and observation about the albums was pertinent, above all because many people are collecting Bathory stuff and need to know details on certain editions. I discovered all those details checking and studying my own records and some records of friends if I did not have a certain edition.
José, you’re the author of three more books including Reporte de Guerra – 40 años de SODOM 1982-2022. How do you see the chances to release it in English too?
I think I have released seven books: Black Metal and its sinister antecedents in Rock and Heavy Metal, 1960-1990; Cry out For Metal – The Bands of GAMA Records; Banzai – The Power of the Canadian Steel Blade; Sarcófago – Sex, Drinks and Metal; Sodom’s, and of course Bathory’s and one book never published, still a couple of test copies exist. And, I also published, in Spanish, the first volume of the history of Death SS. There are plans to release Sodom’s in English and Polish next year, the same for Sarcófago’s.
Good to hear it! How successful was your collaboration with Sodom’s crew during your work on the book? Was it easier to work with them than to gather all the materials for the Bathory biography?
Actually, it was so easy and fluent, the communication with Tom Angelripper. He was very open, cooperative, and sent me materials and always replied to my questions. He checked the main text and gave his approval. I think he was one of the most cooperative individuals I have met so far. Gerald Incubus and Many Joker of Sarcófago were very cooperative too.
Jose, you mentioned your label Under Fire Records above. What are the current releases you work with?
Right now, the label is not very active. The latest release was Leather Nunn’s legendary album Take the Night on CD and special limited box. We try to re-release stuff not available for some time, but as many labels have popped up for the last 5-6 years, doing the same as us, finding new stuff to release is a bit complex. So, we release stuff here and there, not on a regular basis, but we always try to do our best!
What are your further plans? Do you aim to continue your work and spread the Word of Metal further?
My life is Metal so, yes, I will keep spreading the word all around. Yes, I have many plans, but it is early to mention them as nothing is sure yet. I am working on 4 books (one about a German band, another about Mexican Cinema, another about a certain cult British label, and another about Occult ’80s Metal bands, so to speak!). Hope to have them ready next year as I have much info and stuff I am working on right now!!
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